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- My note on Ketamine raised some response from the net, and I
- thought I would respond to mind-l in general, as well as to the
- specific folks who were curious.
-
- *IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER* I am a scientific PhD, not a physician
- Neither I nor my employer take any
- responsibility for its accuracy or
- possible use.
-
- First, ketamine is in current use as both a veternary and a
- human anesthetic. It is called "dissociative" in action, which
- means that the mind is "separated" from the body. In many
- cases, this separation results in profound hallucinations and
- the sensation of entering another reality. In human use, a
- benzodiazapine like Versed is generally used along with
- ketamine to induce amnesia concerning the "emergence
- reactions".
-
- The most easily obtained reference about ketamine is
- the Physicians Desk Reference. Under the heading "Ketalar",
- this gives a great deal of information about the drug. Of
- course, since this is a general medical reference, much of the
- info of interest to mind-l is not present, but it should be
- read anyway.
-
- Perhaps the most important property of ketamine is that,
- despite the induction of both anesthesia and dissociation, the
- cough and gag reflexes *USUALLY* are not affected. This means
- that, contrary to most other agents which will produce
- anesthesia and/or unconsciousness, it is very unlikely that a
- person using ketamine will aspirate their own saliva and other
- excretions. This is *NOT* guarenteed, but is a pretty good
- bet. Solo use, however, remains dangerous.
-
- Ketamine is generally available for non-medical uses as
- ketamine hydrochloride. Some major chemical houses carry it at
- a cost of about $10/gm. I don't know if there are other
- sources which are cheaper, or if the veterinary form is easily
- available.
-
- Dosages are discussed in the PDR, but are generally in the
- range of 100-500 mg. Conventional useage is intravenous or
- intramuscular, but "recreational" use is apparently more often
- through insufflation (snorting) or solution ingestion. These
- latter approaches are probably only effective with the
- hydrochloride form, but the reported doses are similar to the
- conventional medical doses.
-
-
- As in all such experiments, if you must do this, be sure of
- your materials and start slow, with small doses separated by
- enough time to really come back to Earth between experiments.
-
- Mahalo
-
- =============================================================================
-
- Message-ID: <185302Z23111993@anon.penet.fi>
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- From: an49019@anon.penet.fi (the ticktockman)
- Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 18:47:29 UTC
- Subject: Re: Ketamine trip
-
- >I tried to get some info from the net gurus as to what a correct dosage of
- >Ketamine would be, but never got a response. So I guesstimated, and took
- >4 mL of Ketaset (equal to 400mg Ketamine HCl). I had an empty stomach. I
- >took it orally, pouring it down my throat with a spoon -
- >I had heard that it tasted awful, which it did, so I avoided my tongue,
- >and chased it down with an immediate mouthful of orange. No problem.
-
- FWIW, a friend of mine who does K regularly insists that the _only_
- way to do it is intramuscularly (i.e., once you try it that way, you
- will always want to do it that way). He says an optimal dose this
- way is 100 mg (ml). It puts him in a state where he is completely
- divorced from his body and is projected into some astral plane as pure
- consciousness. He says you could drag his body up and down the stairs
- while he is in this state and he would have no idea that this was
- happening. To him, doing K this way is as close as he can come to
- dying without dying, and it is always a beautiful, wondrous experience.
- He claims that taking it orally produces nowhere near as intense an
- experience, but you seem like you had a really excellent trip. I've
- never done the stuff myself, just thought I'd pass along this second-hand
- account for anyone interested ...
-
- the ticktockman
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
- Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
- and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
- Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi.
-
- =============================================================================
-
- From: squest@moonwatcher.avrtech.com (Steve J. Quest)
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- Subject: Ketamine.
- Message-ID: <763499976.85snx@moonwatcher.avrtech.com>
- Date: Sat, 12 Mar 94 19:19:36 GMT
-
- In article <CM6rqw.E4x@sscnet.ucla.edu> magnuson@sscnet.ucla.edu writes:
- >
- >Does anybody know about this? I wonder: what do we have to tell vetinarians as
- >to our pets' symptoms to get them to prescribe ketamine? How expensive is it?
- >What's the recommended dosage for us humans? Any warnings from those who have
- >done it? Any other sources besides vets? Can you advise it? etc., etc.
-
- Ketamine HCl, available as 100mg/ml injectable under the trade name
- Vetalar (Parke-Davis) and Ketaset (Bristol) is used in veterinary
- work as a general anesthetic. The dosage used produces analgesia
- but with normal pharyngeal and laryngeal reflexes. It only causes
- mild respiratory depression. The advantage of this anesthetic is
- that you don't need to support respiration while performing any
- procedures. This allows for a one-man operation. It is so widely
- used in the Veterinary profession that I don't think abuse will
- cause it to be discontinued, but I can see that it will one day
- be serialized and accountable as a controlled substance (as all
- barbituates currently are).
-
- If you think that you will be able to go into a vets office and say
- that you are going to anesthetize your cat, forget it. They only
- use this drug for their surgical procedures, there is no reason why
- anyone would need to buy this drug. Think about stealing the drug
- instead, or fake that you are a vet and purchase them from a wholesale
- drug supplier. Vet pharmaceuticals are not watched by DEA all that
- much, and the distributors are very lax. At least they were when I
- was in the business.
-
- -----------------------------------------
-
- Ketamine is chemically 2-(2-Chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)-
- cyclohexanone. Vitamin K's are naphthoquinones. Not the same thing!
- Too much vitamin K and you will give yourself a stroke, this is not a
- recreational drug!
-
- Ketamine is used as a human and animal anesthetic. Vets use it for
- cats or any small animal and reptiles. I can't say what an IM (intra-
- muscular) injection is like, but an IV injection is very similar to when
- someone takes a crowbar and smacks you as hard as they can to the base of
- your skull! Don't be standing up when you do this, you will hit the floor
- hard! Better yet, be in an easy chair, you will immediately lose all body
- control, very frightening to say the least. Experiment with a few mg at a
- time. The insert states that the recommended dosage for anesthesia (5 to 10
- minute duration) is 2mg/kg. A 70kg adult would then use 140mg or about 1 and
- a half CC's of injectable for a 10 minute duration of anesthesia. Of course
- it is the coming OFF not the going ON that is where all the wierd stuff
- occurs. Medically these are called emergence reactions, but I call them
- hallucinations! :) If being awake and paralyzed doesn't scare you, the
- hallucination is cool. If it frightens you, or if you become frightened,
- you will snowball into a very bad trip. Mood is everything on Ketamine,
- and like all recreational drugs, after you have used it a few times, you get
- a feel for it and are not so apt to be frightened by it. For those who have
- smoked angel dust (PCP; HOG; Phencyclidine) the effects are about the same,
- only you retain less awareness while under Ketamine. I can definately say
- that you want to take a dosage about 1/4 the recommended dose to not totally
- go into anesthesia, but just dangle around the half conscious state. A very
- cool feeling! :) For me it is about 40mg injected IV with a tuberculin
- syringe (1cc 27g 1/2). A little more for a little deeper, but going all the
- way into anesthesia is not all that special, you can't really think or remember
- while under the full dose, I don't recommended it on your first try. Always
- have a health care professional available while you try this to maintain your
- airway should you have a negative reaction to the drug. As with all noxious
- chemicals, you will feel like shit for several hours after the experience,
- especially if you try to walk, carry on a conversation, or do any activity
- that requires mental clarity. BE CAREFUL! Learn about anesthesia before
- attempting to play with anesthetic drugs................sq
-
- --
- squest@moonwatcher.avrtech.com \ ( ( | ) ) All opinions expressed reflect
- ================================> /_\ those of AVR Technologies, our
- ==> MicroPower FM Broadcasting / /\_/\ staff and Gozur the Destructor
-
- =============================================================================
-
- From: crow@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Corey Green)
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- Subject: Excellent Ketamine Read
- Date: 27 May 1994 16:29:12 GMT
- Message-ID: <2s574o$gup@jadzia.CSOS.ORST.EDU>
-
- An excellent book on Ketamine is called "Journey's to the bright side"
- I'm failing to remember the author's name but she also wrote the "Seth
- speaks" books. Journey"s is completely about her experience's with "K"
- it seem's that her husband was an anasthesiologist and regularly dosed
- her.The story goes that she eventually started going to the same familier
- place or dimension and meeting certain beings.She acually started a therapy
- group called Samadhi,I believe in Seattle.The book is facinating,though it
- was out of print when I found it in 1979.Unfortunatly she was murdered in
- Seattle.Her husband believe's because she was writing an expose' on a local
- satanic cult,apparently they never found her head.Anyway John Lilly the
- "Dolphin guy" has some pretty amazing stories about "K" also.The same
- kind of experience"s as Journey's.
- Find your way back, crow.
-
- =============================================================================
-
- From: paul.rossouw@digitec.co.za (Paul Rossouw)
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- Subject: Ketamine
- Message-ID: <5580.206.uupcb@digitec.co.za>
- Date: 24 Jul 94 22:56:00 GMT
-
- "Is this the famous stone that turneth all to gold?"- asked the editor
- of the journal Anesthesia 26(2) 1971.
-
- The search for a safe general anesthetic led pharmacologists in
- 1963 to the phencyclidines (CI-395, PCP, Sernyl, and congener
- CI-400, cyclohexamine). Although producing adequate anesthesia, there
- were marked trance-like psychotic reactions. Further research led to
- ketamine, first introduced by the U of Michigan in 1965, which produced
- less prominent psychotic reactions. Parke-Davis mass-produced it
- (CI-581, Ketalar) as a safe general anesthetic, with rapid onset and
- recovery and a wide margin of safety, and it was extensively used in the
- Vietnam War.
-
- Ketamine produces what is called a "dissociative" anesthetic state,
- meaning ego-mind is split or dis-associated from body-reality. Aka OBE,
- astral projection, soul travel, xtc, etc. Yes, back in the hospital
- beds, the patients were coming round and bringing reports of the most
- amazing trips ....
-
- How do you feel today Mrs Brown?
- - Well, Doc. I was floating up on the ceiling, looking down at myself..
- - I died and went to Heaven. I saw God and the angles, it was beautiful.
- - This UFO landed and these aliens took me aboard and we flew around.
- - Everything was red. Then I realized I'd become a blood cell...
- - I relived a previous life as an Egyptian mathematician.
- - Wow, man. That was some mean acid you gave me.
- - What the fuck chemical did you give my little baby, Doktor.
-
- Medics aren't trained in metaphysics, so they labeled these peculiar
- experiences as "emergent phenomena" and K began getting very bad press.
- How can we control these horrible hallucinations, they asked themselves.
- What other chemical can we give to our patients so that they'll remember
- nothing of this? Of course, the solution was obvious. Treat patients
- like humans, not product. Tell them that they are going to trip. Explain
- what might happen. Give them tips to cope with any problems. When they
- come round, leave them alone in a quite place to recover, etc. A
- study was done showing that this was an effective way of reducing
- adverse patient reaction. It was largely ignored.
-
- Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it - various
- versions available.
-
- Paul
-
- ---
- . SLMR 2.1a . No left turn unstoned
-
- ----
- --- Digitec Online --- Johannesburg, South Africa --- tel +27 11 476-2008 ---
-
- =============================================================================
-
- From: paul.rossouw@digitec.co.za (Paul Rossouw)
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- Subject: Ketamine
- Message-ID: <5581.206.uupcb@digitec.co.za>
- Date: 24 Jul 94 22:57:00 GMT
-
- Is this your passport home?
-
- imho K is a tool for rapidly, and safely, accessing hyper-dimensional
- realities (usually, 0-gravity) which exist vibrational frequencies
- away from baseline beta frequencies. K allows you to control the
- frequency your body-mind (CNS-DNA) is tuned to and allows you to
- operate at much higher vibrational frequencies. The feeling when coming
- back Earth-side is that every molecule has been recharged.
-
- Think of a TV set tuned only to the Sports channel. Only picking up
- sports-related info. Now, give that person a device to tune the TV in to
- other frequencies. Wow, other info. Food, weather, sit-coms, news,
- religion, porn, nature, music.... get the picture? We all have this
- reality tuning ability within us. Yessiree, K mimics the effects of
- an indogenous neurotransmitter, lovingly called angeldustine. Secreted
- at moments of xtreme stress and/or spiritual xtc. This chemical explains
- the OBEs, astral-projections, NDEs, other worldly experiences,
- Xtra-terrestrial contacts, etc. accounts you might have read about in
- your favorite spiritual guide book.
-
- I recommend you begin by making friends with your body-mind. You laugh,
- but this is your launch pad and your home upon your return. You need to
- have absolute faith that your body-mind will take care of itself 100%
- while you're away. Basically, you need to check for any self-destruct
- programs you might have hard-wired. (Lilly screwed up many times because
- of this). Meditation helps, but I recommend spending lots of time in a
- float-tank. "I'm going now body. Take care. Be back later". When you
- return the first thing you do is a body check: Heart? OK. Breathing? OK.
- Senses? Eyes - Out of focus, etc .... (This is especially important when
- floating on K in the tank). Please note that when you are not using your
- body (hardware), other non-physical entities (software) might ask
- to use it. This is aka channeling.
-
- With practice using K you can begin to give your body-mind very specific
- instructions, which it will perform with robotic precision. Not only,
- stand up, balance, take three steps forward, press the HiFi power switch
- in, and so on... But also very intricate movements that demand
- incredible fine-neuromotor control. I mean complete a jumbled Rubic's
- Cube in under a minute, play the Violin like Paganini, shoot that
- arrow better than Robin Hood, type up an award-winning magazine article.
- Here is a new market. Jack a tab and play like a pro. But first, may we
- suggest a little multi-media programming in the tank.
-
- Oh yes, don't forget your affirmation before a trip. This is like a
- prayer - the Monroe institute provide an excellent one (should I post
- it). Here you affirm that you (and friend body-mind) are good kinda
- people. You are doing this to explore your greater potential. Any other
- good folk out there who want to help can do so. May you come back in one
- piece. Amen.
-
- Paul
-
- ---
- . SLMR 2.1a . No left turn unstoned
-
- ----
- --- Digitec Online --- Johannesburg, South Africa --- tel +27 11 476-2008 ---
-
- =============================================================================
-
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- From: meb8913@utarlg.uta.edu (Mark Browning)
- Subject: Bad news about Ketamine
- Message-ID: <7AUG199413582287@utarlg.uta.edu>
- Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:58:00 GMT
-
- After about 6 months of fairly regular use of Ketamine HCl taken IV
- I have found, to my horror, that at last I have a resistance to it.
- I started with 0.08 cc Iv, now I take 0.45 (normally a huge dose) with
- very little effect. Also I have found that what ever trip there is
- has been greatly reduced in length. First trip was 30 minutes, they
- are now about 5 minutes.
-
- I am not too surprised by the resistance to it. It happens with virtualy
- every drug. Does anyone know what neurotransmitter is being suppressed
- and how long I have to wait?
-
- Thanks
- Mark
-
- =============================================================================
-
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- From: mcthomas@netcom.com (Matt Thomas)
- Subject: Re: Bad news about Ketamine
- Message-ID: <mcthomasCuLpG3.1z3@netcom.com>
- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 00:02:27 GMT
-
- : Yes it is a small amount, however Ketamine is supplied in 100mg/ml (10ml)
- : bottles.
-
- : It would not be wise to add the bottle to 100cc of fluid, if did this,
- : and you were up to taking 0.4cc (40mg) IV you would need a 6cc syringe to
- : hold your 4.0cc (40mg) of diluted fluid. Let me tell you it is sometimes
- : hard enough to get 0.4cc in, let alone 4cc. Also if you diluted it in
- : this manor you would not be able to take the Ketamine Sub Cu. One
- : can safely take about 2cc of fluid Sub Cu, anything over that and you
- : run the risk of getting a sterile abscess (a very nasty ulcer of the
- : skin that takes a long time to heal and scares badly).
-
- I've had the fortune of obtaining a case (40 bottles 100mg/ml) and found
- that after IVing for weeks it gets old trying to hide the tracks. So I
- decided to boil down a bottle. I got a gram of pure white crystals.
- Snorted it takes 60 seconds for full effect and follow-up doses are VERY
- small to keep the high. I stayed fucked up on K for a week with 2 grams.
- I was on the front porch reading yesterday's sports page naked one day.
- I decided to fall back on pot for a while...
-
- Matt
-
- --
- ===============================================================================
- | Matt Thomas | ...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable |
- | mcthomas@netcom.com | rights: Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. |
- | Atlanta, GA | _\|/_ L E G A L I Z E M A R I J U A N A _\|/_ |
- ===============================================================================
- (If you agree with that, then anon FTP to: ftp.netcom.com pub/mcthomas/hemp)
-
- =============================================================================
-
- From: paul.rossouw@digitec.co.za (Paul Rossouw)
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- Subject: Ketamine, use for
- Message-ID: <4658.206.uupcb@digitec.co.za>
- Date: 18 Jul 94 02:49:00 GMT
-
- I would like to focus attention onto ketamine as this is a most
- Profound And Precious Chemical (PPC). Are you asking yourself, why
- should I try this stuff ? What practical use does Ketamine have, other
- than putting out people and cats? Here is a suggestion.
-
- Use for Ketamine:
-
- As a Virtual Reality software design tool
-
- K has vast potential as a tool to be used in the creation and evaluation
- of virtual realities. Anyone involved with the development of VR
- applications will attest to the inherent problems involved in coming up
- with, prototyping, and testing ideas. Much time/money is wasted on
- ideas that turn out to be inappropriate. On the other hand, when you
- take K you get transported to what is essentially another reality; to
- fly around, explore and interact in that other reality. It seems highly
- feasible that while on K, one's attention could be focused on the
- creation and exploration of a world that you later plan to re-create
- with a VR toolkit.
-
- To give a brief example. On K I occasionally go to a "Museum space",
- usually when coming back form another K place. In this space I
- experience myself as a Museum exhibition. I am a life-size statue, with
- my back to one of the walls, floating about 20 meters from the ground.
- As I look down, I can see people wondering in and out of the Museum.
- They are looking at the various exhibits and statues scattered around
- the space, some on the ground, others on podiums, others floating above
- the ground like myself. Everything seems odd, yet strangely familiar.
- Think of visiting an Egyptian museum, to get a picture in your mind of
- what I am describing. I attentively watch the goings on for a while,
- everything seems meaningful and insights keep popping into my head.
- After a certain period of watching, I unhitch, the Museum banks to
- one side and I start "flowing" (although I don't flow like water,
- more akin to a toothpaste tube being squeezed), and head off to another
- K space.
-
- What has this to do with VR design? I also thought nothing about it
- until I read Gelernter's book "Mirror World's, or the day the world gets
- put into a shoebox, how it will happen and what it will mean" (I'm
- quoting from memory so this might be slightly wrong). Therein, Gelernter
- describes what he calls a *Turingware Trellis*, which is a VR
- environment where humans and software can intermingle. Raw data flows
- into the bottom of the trellis and becomes more meaningful as it raises
- up. Towards the top, human faces start appearing, individuals poking
- their heads into the virtual space. The diagram in the book shows a
- number of disembodied faces, floating high amongst a wall of data which
- is piped in from the bottom. The similarities were clear and the idea
- flashed that my "Museum space" was really a "Turingware Trellis".
-
- Could one not use K then to explore and prototype virtual worlds,
- and ideas like the Turingware Trellis? How else can we prepare
- ourselves for the Mirror Worlds of the future? What is it going to be
- like to float around in virtual worlds, watching data and people.
- Disorientation, aesthetics, navigation, usability, etc can be addressed
- from K spaces, without lengthy and costly VR development. This notion is
- not a new one. John Lilly, in an Omni interview, mentioned that the cast
- and crew of the film Altered States had prepared themselves by taking
- K. In the 1960's there were many similar suggestions about chemicals
- like LSD. Progressive Architecture (1966), actually carried an article
- called "LSD: A design tool". My idea is a natural extension of this type
- of thinking.
-
- I will be exploring this a bit further in the next few weeks, so any
- comments or suggestions are most welcome. Also, what about other uses
- for K?
-
- Cheers Paul.
- ---
- . SLMR 2.1a . My reality check just bounced.
-
- ----
- --- Digitec Online --- Johannesburg, South Africa --- tel +27 11 476-2008 ---
-
- =============================================================================
-
- o KETAMINE ('Vitamin K', 'Special K')
-
-
- //\
- // \ CH
- | || | 3
- | || |
- \\ /\ N--H
- \\/ \/
- | /\ O
- Cl / \//
- | |
- | |
- \ /
- \/
-
- Ketamine is chemically related to PCP ('Angel Dust'). PCP, a
- dangerous American street drug rather than a psychedelic, is
- characterized by resulting in frequent bad trips, psychotic reactions
- and extreme violence in its users.
-
- But Ketamine appears to be much safer than PCP. It is still used in
- human medicine unlike PCP. Currently Ketamine ('Ketalar') is a
- prescription only medicine rather than a controlled drug in Britain.
- It is a powerful drug used as a general anaesthetic, which has some
- strange psychedelic effects when used at low doses (25-100mg). The
- usual medical form is a liquid when it is injected intramuscularly.
- American street users heat the liquid to obtain a white powder which
- is smoked or snorted. Ketamine may be ineffective when taken by mouth
- - although one report from Denmark claims it to be orally active at
- the 200mg level with the effects becoming apparent slowly.
-
- The effects are stronger and more profound than acid but last only an
- hour or so. The subject should remain still. Experiences of the mind
- leaving the body and floating in space, or even death are common. Bad
- trips are supposed to be absent but there are serious dangers
- following heavy use. Dr John Lilly and his fellow researchers have
- used the drug continuously for weeks. Several believe themselves to
- have contacted alien intelligences and two committed suicide.
- Although non-toxic (unlike PCP) it appears to have potential for
- psychological dependency. K has been used in experimental psychotherapy.
-
- In 1991 reports have emerged of K usage by the nightclubbing
- fraternity in New York. This practice has now spread to London where
- K is available for about 100 pounds per gram. I am rather surprised
- by this since clubbers tend to go for stimulating drugs rather than
- those sedative in nature.
-
- =============================================================================
-
- Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
- From: bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (William E. White )
- Subject: Re: Special K refs ?
- Message-ID: <Cx88ot.Hxr@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
- Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 01:12:29 GMT
-
- In article <jamesm.1.0010A6D6@cogs.susx.ac.uk>,
- Part-Time Cosmic Baby <jamesm@cogs.susx.ac.uk> wrote:
- >Does anyone know if there is abuse potencial for Special K ?
-
- Yes. There is.
-
- >Any long/short term toxicity ?
-
- Short term -- yes, it has acute toxicity; like most NMDA/sigma agents, it
- can suppress respiration in sufficient quantities. I don't know the LD50.
- Long term -- don't know. Possible rebound excitotoxicity on NMDA receptors
- if you use it too often -- would would lead to general functional loss,
- possibly concentrated in areas of memory.
-
- >How does it work in the brain ?
-
- It acts upon several neuroreceptors:
-
- 1) The NMDA receptor (an excitatory amino acid receptor), where it blocks
- neurotransmission by lodging in the open configuration, preventing ion
- influx/outflux.
- 2) The sigma receptor, where it acts as an agonist
- 3) The PCP2 receptor, where it acts (with micromolar, i.e., not much,
- potency) to block a reuptake channel.
-
- >If this is the case, then it may explain why people may contact alien
- >inteligences while on K, maybe becase it facilitates that sort of extreme
- >mental projection of seeing things from an alien's point of view.
-
- Perhaps. Of course, keep in mind that the sigma receptor is thought to
- be involved in schizophrenia (accounting, unlike the dopamine receptor,
- for both the positive and negative symptoms), and sigma activity has
- been associated with drug-induced psychosis. YMMV.
-
- --
- | Bill White +1-614-594-3434 | bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu |
- | 44 Canterbury, Athens OH 45701 | finger for PGP2.2 block |
-
- =============================================================================
-
- From: George Greer <76555.1137@CompuServe.COM>
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- Subject: Re: Obtaining Ketamine
- Date: 8 Oct 1994 03:49:53 GMT
- Message-ID: <3754t1$d63$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
-
- As a psychiatrist, I gave ketamine to about 40 people in the
- '80's. Psychologically it is very safe: even the PDR says there
- are no lasting psychological problems, though somewhat
- dissociative "flashbacks" have occurred. Physically, there is
- total loss of coordination if you take enough (say 1.5 mg/kg, or
- about 100 mg), so trying to move around can be dangerous. Also,
- if you move your head much while under the influence, it can make
- your very dizzy, nauseous and make you throw up. Ketamine and a
- non-empty stomach do not mix. Also, when given IV it can cause
- you to stop breathing, so do not try this at home. Other
- contraindications are: high blood pressure (it increases blood
- pressure), heart disease, liver disease (it could take a long
- time to come down), seizures (if you have them, you might have
- one). The most consistent benefit reported by the first 20-40
- subjects was that, though they had believed that their spirit
- lasted after their bodies died, after ketamine, they knew they
- would not die with their bodies. Ketamine is now a Schedule III
- Controlled Substance in California, New Mexico, and probably
- other states.
- George Greer, M.D. 76555.1137@compuserve.com
-
- =============================================================================
-
- Message-ID: <213331Z16021995@anon.penet.fi>
- Newsgroups: alt.drugs
- From: an31339@anon.penet.fi
- Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:29:43 UTC
- Subject: Ketamine facts (was Re: The World according to Ketamine)
-
- kenneth23@aol.com (Kenneth23) writes:
-
- >Ketamine is NOT, NOT, (one more time) >>>NOT<<< a tranquilizer!!! It is a
- >GENERAL ANESTHETIC, used on BOTH humans >>>AND<<< animals, around the
- >entire country, every single frigging day. If you don't know what a
- >general anesthetic is, look it up.
-
- Wow. Once again there's a message by some supercilious fool who is not
- only obnoxious, but wrong. Yes, the above post does go on to sat that
- ketamine's action is dissociative, so that's good. But ketamine is NOT
- a general anesthetic. According to the Ketaset insert "the anesthetic
- state produced does not fit into the conventional classification of
- stages of anesthesia." It is NOT a GENERAL anesthetic. It is a
- DISSOCIATIVE anesthetic. Analgesic properties are not manifest at the
- lower dosages, where immobility is effected. This is why many people,
- including vets I know (ketamine is used in humans very infrequently,
- as it can lead to rather unpleasurable experiences) refer to ketamine
- as tranquilizer. This is not a completely inaccurate description. In
- fact, it's a hell of a lot closer to the truth than calling it a
- general anesthetic.
-
- To clear up any possible confusions, here are some exerpts from the
- Ketaset insert. Ketaset is a brand name for ketamine hydrochloride.
- Ketaset is for animal use only, probably due to the way it is
- prepared. I have not included the whole insert. I don't have the time
- right now, unfortunately. But here are some interesting tidbits:
-
- DESCRIPTION
-
- KETASET (ketamine hydrochloride injection, USP), is a rapid-acting,
- nonnarcotic, nonbarbituate agent for anesthetic use in cats and for
- restraint in subhuman primates. It is chemically designated
- dl-(o0chlotophenyl)-2-(methylamino) cyclohexanone hydrochloride and is
- supplied as a slightly acit (pH 3.0 to 5.0) solution for intramuscular
- injection in a concentration containing the equivalent of 100 mg
- ketamine bas per milliliter and contains no more than 0.2 mg/mL
- benzethonium chloride as a preservative.
-
- KETASET is a rapid-acting agent whose pharmacological action is
- characterized by profound analgesia, normal pharyngeal-laryngeal
- reflexes, mild cardiac stimulation and respiratory depression.
- Skeletal muscle tone is variable and me be normal, enhanced or
- diminished. The anesthetic state produced does not fit into the
- conventional classification of stages of anesthesia, but instead
- KETASET produces a state of unconsciousness which has been termed
- "dissociative" anesthesia in that it appears to selectively interrupt
- association pathways to the brain before producing somesthetic sensory
- blockade.
-
- In contrast to other anesthetics, protective reflexes, such as
- coughing and swallowing are maintained under KETASET anesthesia. The
- degree of muscle tone is dependant upon the level of dose; therefore,
- variations in body temperature may occur. At low dosage levels there
- may be an increase in muscle tone and a concamitant slight increase in
- body temperature. However, at high dosage levels there is some
- dimunition in muscle tone and a resultant decrease in body
- temperature, to the point where supplemental heat may be advisable.
-
- [...] Although salivation is occasionally noted, the persistence of
- the swallowing reflex aids in minimizing the hazards associated with
- ptyalism. Salivation may be effectively controlled with atropine
- sulfate in dosages of 0.04 mg/kg (0.02 mg/lb) in cats and 0.01 to 0.05
- mg/kg (0.005 to 0.025 mg/lb) in subhuman primates.
-
- Other reflexes, e.g., corneal, pedal, etc., are maintained during
- KETASET anesthesia, and should not be used as criteria for judging
- depth of anesthesia. The eyes normally remain open with the pupils
- dilated. It is suggested that a bland ophthalmic ointment be applied
- to the cornea if anesthesia is to be prolonged.
-
- [...] In studies involving 14 species of subhuman primates represented
- by at least 10 anesthetic episodes for each species, the median time
- to restraint ranged from 1.5 [Aotus trivirgatus (night monkey) and
- Cebus capucinus (white-throated capuchin)] to 5.3 minutes [Macaca
- nemestrina (pig-tailed macaque)]. The median duration of restraint
- ranged between 20 and 55 minutes in all but five species studied.
- Total time from injection to end of restraint ranged from 43 [Saimiri
- sciureus (squirrel monkey)] to 183 minutes [Macaca nemestrina
- (pig-tailed macaque)] after injection. Recovery is generally smooth
- and uneventful. The duration is dose related.
-
- By single intramuscular injection, KETASET usually has a wide margin
- of safety in cats and subhuman primates. In cats, cases of prolonged
- recovery and death have been reported.
-
- INDICATIONS
-
- KETASET may be used in cats for restraint or as a sole anesthetic
- agent for diagnostic or minor, brief, surgical procedures that do not
- require skeletal muscle relaxation. It may be used in subhuman
- primates for restraint.
-
- CONTRAINDICATIONS
-
- KETASET is contraindicated in cats and subhuman primates suffering
- from renal or hepatic insufficiency.
-
- PRECAUTIONS
-
- In cats, doses in excess of 50 mg/kg suring any single procedure
- should not be used. The maximum recommended does in subhuman primates
- is 40 mg/kg. [...]
-
- +----------------------------------------------------------------+
-
- That's all I have time for now, unfortunately. I should note that
- they provide recommended doses for both restraint and "anesthesia that
- is suitable for diagnostic or minor surgical procedures that do not
- require skeletal muscle relaxation" in cats. But for subhuman
- primates, they provide dosages for restraint only. This is because
- KETAMINE IS NOT A GENERAL ANESTHETIC and should not be used as one.
-
- Thanks for listening,
-
- Slack
-
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